Continuous stream challenge 2020

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Continuous stream challenge 2020

Postby sato » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:02 pm

Hi Jack,
It was 11/2014 when I asked you to change a few things in regards to multistream reception of your Smart–DVB player and we, satellite DXers around the globe were later on very pleased with your work and improvements you did. Not only because you made multistreams easier to receive, but you also implemented T2-MI reception that we are all very thankful for.
It`s 2020 and I`ve decided to write you once again and ask you to make your great player even better. If it`s possible, of course.
But it`s not a request of mine I must say, as a better word would probably be “a challenge” I guess.

What I would like to ask you for is called “Continuous stream” that can be seen on many satellites these days, but it is almost impossible to view with any available card we have access to.
Because it is not an easy task to do, there are 3 of us at the moment who are willing to help you as much as it gets.
My colleague Peon is driven by his passion to enter new uncharted territories and bring technology of tomorrow today. He has access to 53W - 96E satellites in C, ext. C, X, Ku and Ka band on 2.5 & 3.7m antennas and has permanently connected his numerous cards (TBS5925, TBS6983, TBS6903, TBS6903x, TBS6522, TBS5520SE, TBS5927, TBS5590 and Prof7301) to his computer.
Enosat has a great courage and passion for satellite reception and everything that hides behind the stream. He`s the most clever guy I have ever known.
What about me? People call me a secretary, a spokesperson, a satellite man, but no matter what they say a man like me has a dream. And that dream forces me to put the great satellite specialists of our times together and make another unreal come true. Because “some reach for the stars, some push others towards them”.
Also, we all deeply believe that it won`t be your/our shame to ask strannik and Crazy Cat (both my friends collaborate with them at some point) for help and join us if a person`s knowledge reaches the dead end. Collaboration was, is and always will be needed. Here on smartdvb.net or our DX forum satellitescommunity.de forum and everyday life.
Now, there are 3 of us, but once this project goes ahead there will be more people involved....

What we know about Continuous stream so far:
- It is very common
- It can be received, but video/audio is seen/heard if we`re lucky (mostly with TBS 6983 card only)
- It`s probably also necessary to improve an interface for DVB-IP norm to achieve CS reception as most of them are probably for internet services/providers
- MODCOD used in TBS 6xxx cards may be helpful (???)
- List can be found on https://www.satellitescommunity.de/gssatellites/0index.html (thanks to our DXers )

So Jack, are you in and willing to change the history of satellite reception in 2020? If yes, here are some stuff to start with.
Some guys keep telling me that CS is strictly a question of new hardware TBS has to come with...
But people wanted to fly and they were told it ain`t possible `cause of no wings...
But then, on Dec. 17, 1903 a man was in the air for 12 seconds and went 120 feet above the ground!

The easiest CS signals to be received in Europe :
Astra @ 19E – 12670 V (Mpeg-7 used!!!)
Eutelsat 33e @ 33E – 12543 V (ex stream from 5W)

Other pictures and recordings are attached here:
http://www.filedropper.com/tbscardscontinousstream
https://gofile.io/?c=Ay9ugM
https://easyupload.io/34smir


Many thanks
Sato, Peon & EnoSat

Eutelsat 33e @ 33E - 12543 CS.jpg
Eutelsat 33e @ 33E - 12543 Continous Stream
Eutelsat 33e @ 33E - 12543 CS.jpg (246.28 KiB) Viewed 2476 times

Eutelsat @ 5W Smart DVB Info (not there anymore).jpg
Eutelsat @ 5W Smart DVB Info (not there anymore)
Eutelsat @ 5W Smart DVB Info (not there anymore).jpg (245.72 KiB) Viewed 2470 times
Eutelsat @ 5W CrazyScan by Crazy Cat(not there anymore).jpg
Eutelsat @ 5W CrazyScan by Crazy Cat(not there anymore)
Eutelsat @ 5W CrazyScan by Crazy Cat(not there anymore).jpg (254.59 KiB) Viewed 2448 times
Last edited by sato on Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Continous Stream challenge 2020

Postby VictorLS » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:22 pm

Thanks for great post.
Where can I get MPEG-7 stream to try decode it before experiments with continuous stream - I can lock just 19e2 12670v23500 from you mentioned above (in TBS cards (Continous Stream).zip too)?
Btw correct please Continous -> Continuous as CrazyCat did in CrazyScan when I asked him:
Attachments
CrazyScan_Continuous19e2_20200121omicom.PNG
CrazyScan_Continuous19e2_20200121omicom.PNG (108.49 KiB) Viewed 2413 times
Russian Crimea, 1200х1100 on SMR-1224:103E-30W Ku cir, Ku, С cir
Athlon II x3 460, 690V, 4GB, 2+4TB, GTX750v2 GM206 1GB (h265 4:2:0 4K 10bit 60Hz hardware acceleration), RemoteWonder
Omicom S2 PCI, TBS 5520SE USB, WinXPx86+Win7x64 RUS, GI HD Micro Plus
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Re: Continous Stream challenge 2020

Postby EnoSat » Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:55 am

Only packet fragments without proper interpolation.
Image
TBS 5925 , 5880 , 5220
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Re: Continous Stream challenge 2020

Postby VictorLS » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:42 pm

Why 19e2 absent in https://www.satellitescommunity.de/gssa ... index.html at all?
I can't lock any 33e1, 5w, 22wC was talking in first post of this thread - just 19e2 12670v23500 can.
Russian Crimea, 1200х1100 on SMR-1224:103E-30W Ku cir, Ku, С cir
Athlon II x3 460, 690V, 4GB, 2+4TB, GTX750v2 GM206 1GB (h265 4:2:0 4K 10bit 60Hz hardware acceleration), RemoteWonder
Omicom S2 PCI, TBS 5520SE USB, WinXPx86+Win7x64 RUS, GI HD Micro Plus
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Re: Continous Stream challenge 2020

Postby sato » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:50 pm

Thanks for your interest and I hope Jack will reply to our request sooner or later. We all 3 fully understand, that this is his free time project and it doesn`t pay for any of his bills.
Those streams are not there all the time, that`s why I provided those files in case somebody wants to look at them, first.
Also, especially in C-band some people do not have required size to get that signal.
5W is history now as we all know that a new satellite has problems with solar panels....
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Re: Continous Stream challenge 2020

Postby VictorLS » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:01 pm

I've just record 19e2_12670v23500mis171continuousMPEG-7_20200122.ts (18MB) https://yadi.sk/d/734HyAxzWVrkCg with OMICOM S2 PCI in last CrazyScan in some minutes so real bandwidth is too narrow. I guess that's why record of this transponder absent in TBS cards (Continous Stream).zip you've uploaded before.
Russian Crimea, 1200х1100 on SMR-1224:103E-30W Ku cir, Ku, С cir
Athlon II x3 460, 690V, 4GB, 2+4TB, GTX750v2 GM206 1GB (h265 4:2:0 4K 10bit 60Hz hardware acceleration), RemoteWonder
Omicom S2 PCI, TBS 5520SE USB, WinXPx86+Win7x64 RUS, GI HD Micro Plus
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Re: Continous Stream challenge 2020

Postby sato » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:28 pm

It`s not absent in my zip file because it hasn`t been recorded by any of us at all. The picture of 19E in my zip was provided by EnoSat. We can record any transponder Jack will ask for from any band (C, ext. C, X, Ku and Ka) or card (TBS5925, TBS6983, TBS6903, TBS6903x, TBS6522, TBS5520SE, TBS5927, TBS5590 and Prof7301) Peon has access to.
Pictures and records in the zip is just the beginning. Something to start with and to point to the problem...
As it was said before, we`re willing to provide a helping hand as much as possible, but neither of us is a programmer.

But thanks for uploading the file and your interest in this problem.
Attachments
PC cards by  Peon.jpg
PC cards by Peon
PC cards by Peon.jpg (144.3 KiB) Viewed 2375 times
Peon`s 3.7m antenna.jpg
Peon`s 3.7m antenna
Peon`s 3.7m antenna.jpg (201.92 KiB) Viewed 2369 times
Peon`s workshop.jpg
Peon`s workshop
Peon`s workshop.jpg (222.68 KiB) Viewed 2359 times
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Re: Continous Stream challenge 2020

Postby SmartDVB » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:13 pm

Good day Sato (and others),

Thanks for the interest with regards to this from the DX community (i've communicated Peon and EnoSat also at some point in the passed years). Looking at these continuous streams is certainly something on the todo list after the pending update for the 0.5.3.26 release. So adding some kind of support for these specific streams is certainly in the pipeline and all transport stream recordings regarding these are really appreciated as i'm sure they might be helpful when needed (i'm always asking people for TS recordings :)).

@victor_ls

Btw correct please Continous -> Continuous as CrazyCat did in CrazyScan when I asked him:


thanks, will do.

best regards
SmartDVB
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Re: Continous Stream challenge 2020

Postby sato » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:17 pm

We all appreciate your positive attitude to do something about those Continuous stream.
Especially our DX community will be very grateful if you try to make it work. It will be a huge breakthrough in satellite reception to get a hassle free CS reception.
If there`s anything we can help you with, just ask.
Everything necessary will be done in no time.
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Re: Continuous stream challenge 2020

Postby VictorLS » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:13 am

sato
If you have possibility can you (or Peon and EnoSat) lock, record and upload with professional SAT-card 57eC 4010R23809 continuous I fortuitously lock?
Attachments
57eC_4010R23809_continuous.PNG
57eC_4010R23809_continuous.PNG (59.62 KiB) Viewed 2224 times
Russian Crimea, 1200х1100 on SMR-1224:103E-30W Ku cir, Ku, С cir
Athlon II x3 460, 690V, 4GB, 2+4TB, GTX750v2 GM206 1GB (h265 4:2:0 4K 10bit 60Hz hardware acceleration), RemoteWonder
Omicom S2 PCI, TBS 5520SE USB, WinXPx86+Win7x64 RUS, GI HD Micro Plus
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Re: Continuous stream challenge 2020

Postby VictorLS » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:22 am

Today same (seems multi-)transponder gives another constellation diagram:
Attachments
57eC_4010R23810.PNG
57eC_4010R23810.PNG (59.12 KiB) Viewed 2214 times
Russian Crimea, 1200х1100 on SMR-1224:103E-30W Ku cir, Ku, С cir
Athlon II x3 460, 690V, 4GB, 2+4TB, GTX750v2 GM206 1GB (h265 4:2:0 4K 10bit 60Hz hardware acceleration), RemoteWonder
Omicom S2 PCI, TBS 5520SE USB, WinXPx86+Win7x64 RUS, GI HD Micro Plus
VictorLS
 
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Re: Continuous stream challenge 2020

Postby sato » Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:04 pm

Today`s scan of requested frequency on NSS 12 @ 57E.
There is no CS at the moment on 4010 RHCP and it seems, that DVB-S2X norm is used. Nice solid lock with TBS 6522, but other cards such as TBS 6983, 6903 etc. have problems to lock it as they do not have DVB-S2X capability.

Unfortunately, the stream can not be recorded right now as you can see and we do not know why... So no ts file can be provided at the moment.

Continuous Stream NSS12 @ 57E , 4010 RHCP.jpg
Continuous Stream (ocassionally) on NSS12 @ 57E , 4010 RHCP
Continuous Stream NSS12 @ 57E , 4010 RHCP.jpg (252.27 KiB) Viewed 2179 times
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Re: Continuous stream challenge 2020

Postby DVB-S PL » Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:10 am

A nice idea to look at this, but I'm afraid that's not something easy to do.

Continuous Streams are in most cases already damaged by DVB card hardware or drivers, because HW is anyway trying to align stream to 188-byte TS packets and do not transmit BBFrames, that are needed for software implementation to know a structure of the stream. What DVB player is receiving, is often already partially destroyed.

Additionally Continuous Stream is not a name for just one standard. Every stream has to have some structure, so any endpoint device would be able to read it somehow. Mostly devices (modems)/producers have their own way of broadcasting data through such type of a stream. Content of continuous stream might be just anything, MPEG-7, video/audio, images, IP, network stream (eg partial one-way TCP/UDP with separate return path link by 3G/4G terrestrially), compressed data, encrypted data. Even if there would be a way to read one GCS stream, that won't work for hundreds of others. To get any information just about a structure it is needed to DVB card hardware to be able to push Baseband Header (BBHeader), so application is able to detect what it is and treat this properly. But even knowing eg. length of packet (which may be variable) - still the format of data inside packet is unknown and beside bruteforcing nothing much can be done. Knowing that every Continuous Stream might be (and mostly is) a separate, proprietary implementation/standard, every such transmission would have to be analyzed separately and one implementation won't cover all such transmissions all over the satellites. This is nothing universal, which work for all such broadcasts.

Anyway everything that is not a fixed packet 188-byte Transport Stream is mostly unreadable with non-professional DVB device (and 6903, 6983 etc. are still not professional as well, not in the meaning of what kind of "pro" is needed here).

Please check this explaination by crazycat: https://www.tbsdtv.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 572#p29430
Also a lot of useful knowledge related to this topic is here: https://rickcaylor.websitetoolbox.com/p ... ?trail=420 (especially last pages). Some Digital Devices DVB cards with upgraded firmware and drivers are able to provide BBFrames in TS 188-byte packets, which then can be cleared out from TS structure and original stream can be recovered. With TBS cards probably impossible at all. Real solution is Dektec device, which has got hardware ready for BBFrames transmission and software can be then tailored to any need/specific transmission.

Of course it is worth to check this out, try to look at this. But with current knowledge - because of HW issues and that Continuous stream is not a fixed standard of data transmission - I'm afraid this won't succeed. But keeping my fingers crossed, eventually try to provide as much TS samples as possible. If something can be done, for sure SmartDVB will help! ;)

BTW: Often these transmissions are an Internet downlink (a lot of these for Middle East, for business, international companies and army) and damaged videos of some channels is just simply a situation where somebody somewhere is watching online TV :) I saw many times p*rn - any video can be watched like this, so... :lol:
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